Joel sits down with world-class outdoor photographer and part-owner of BOSS Shotshells, Lee Kjos in our landmark 40th episode. They discuss the intersection of industry and conservation and how a hobby can become a career. BOSS provides the ammunition for Delta Waterfowl’s UHP programs across North America AND sponsors a number of Delta Hen Houses across the PPR!
https://bossshotshells.com
Joel sits down with world-class outdoor photographer and part-owner of BOSS Shotshells, Lee Kjos in our landmark 40th episode. They discuss the intersection of industry and conservation and how a hobby can become a career. BOSS provides the ammunition for Delta Waterfowl’s UHP programs across North America AND sponsors a number of Delta Hen Houses across the PPR!
https://bossshotshells.com
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Delta Waterfowl’s the voice of the duck hunter podcast. On today's episode, I sit down with world class outdoor and wildlife photographer Lee Kjos. We discuss subjects like Lee's personal and professional background, how he became part owner of Boss Shot Shells and my favorite topic, Boss's deep rooted commitment to conservation. As a teaser, Boss is currently funding the construction installation and annual maintenance of 300 delta waterfowl hen houses and has also donated all the hunting ammo required to deliver the US portion of our university hunting program. With that introduction, let's bring in today's guest. Lee Kjos Welcome to the Delta Waterfowl Podcast. Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. Looking forward to this. Yeah, it's I've been honestly, I was telling you here before we hit record, I'm really looking forward to this one. You guys at Boss have such a conservation perspective and, you know, big supporters of Delta and the work that we do. So I've been excited to talk about it and learn a little bit more about what's going on there. So. Lee Kjos Co-owner Yeah, I'm one of the owners. There's three of us, you know, Brandon and Zach and Brandon and Zach. What's your last name there? Brandon Cerecke, He's the guy that made the shell. Okay. Zach Meyer, I used to work for Zach when he lived in Minnesota. Now he moved his family to Michigan, and he pretty much runs the kind of operation there. I would say. But I used to work for him. He was in the phantom lure lure fishing business, phantom lure, and I did a big brand project, rebranded that company for him and just liked him, just really, really liked how he conducted himself and who he was for a young fella in the in the business in the outdoor world, and then brought him over to Boss and know made him a partner. And that's cool. It's cool. Yeah. Your name? It's the first time we've met. I've been in this. I guess I've been with Delta 21 years. Your name is always floating around, but I've never met you. So you're kind of a you're kind of a thing. And so I'm excited to learn a little bit more about you as well as well at the same time. So I'd love to jump into that. So why don't you give us a little bit of your personal background? Where are you from? You know, have you always been a hunter? What's your career been like? And let's bring it all the way to Boss. When we could go, We'll try to keep that part short, I guess. But, you know, as a boy, I grew up in northern Minnesota and a small hunting and fishing resort and mom and dad were fantastic, like ambassadors in the outdoor in outdoor world, right? I mean, not media people or anything, but just loved hunting and fishing they traveled. So like when I was a boy, I traveled hunting and fishing, especially duck hunting. Dad was a major duck hunter, and I spent a lot of time in Prairie Canada when I was young, DIY. Everything right stayed in a tent, you know right. Did more Western Manitoba, almost all of Saskatchewan and then eastern Alberta. You know, by the time I was 12 years old, I had spent like a months, months like weed weed camp on the South Saskatchewan River in western Saskatchewan for a month. Holy cow. I mean, I guess their profession allowed you guys to do that, right? Yeah. My dad was a union electrician, so, I mean, he he took off work, and then when it came to school, he would go to the principal at school and he would talk to them about what he wanted to do. And they'd give me my school, my books, and then I'd go to kind of home school during that. Yeah, yeah. You know, I know this is your introduction, but I found what you just said there was fascinating in the sense that I was talking with some of the other day. There are just about as many nonresident duck hunters in Arkansas as there are resident duck hunters. There's a kind of talking about that trend in that, you know, back when you were growing up, traveling for hunting was not common information wasn't really there to find read a book that maybe was written years ago by someone. But today it's it's kind of so easy. There's the Internet, there's all the OnX type mapping programs that movies, videos. And so, yeah, I think this is the age of the traveling hunter. But but that's a that was a real pioneering effort to really do that really fun. How would they approach that? How would they know? Just try that. Well, you know what? I think like today, the thing that's most different is how young people are that can travel like that. I mean, these guys go they go hard. Yeah. They start up in Canada and they go through the Dakotas and they go to Missouri, you know, and Arkansas and back up. They put a lot a lot of days in. You know, it's just it's it is a lot different than it was back in the seventies or like, Yeah, yeah. So do you find yourself being nomadic like that, too, when it comes to hunting? Yeah. Yeah, I love hunting alone. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love Prairie Canada alone. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's actually kind of funny. I outside of my kids, my kids are 15 and 12. They love to go, both of them do, but I probably do 99% of my hunting alone. And it's not that I don't like people at all. I like to choose when I'm around people. And honestly, what I find in this rat race life, it's hard to be it's hard to be selfish sometimes. And I find that when I go hunting by myself, I choose where, how, how long, You know, if I'm in the mountains, big game hunting, you know, I can I can hike out for a few miles and decide I'm not coming back to camp tonight and nobody's going to be worried about me. So it's just that I don't know. Yeah, but you have to like yourself. Peace. So you must like yourself. I do. I do too. Yeah. I like who I am in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. That's great. Okay, so move on there. So in your upbringing, those are some, I don't know, irreplaceable. Oh, really? Memories. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's move on down the timeline. So then you have always been , uh, artsy. Yeah. Like, yeah. Photograph and draw and paint and just. It started to get a little older and I started to market products for outdoor companies. Most most of them were at the shot show at that time. And one thing led to another and I probably like really timing. Timing was, you know, can be can be critical, isn't it? Yeah. You just like some things happen at the right time and you're there at the right time. And Cabela's was on their rise up with those big, you know, kind of superstores and and companies like Benelli and Under Armor. I did all their marketing for years. And when those companies are on their run up, you know, you're kind of the guy in the background that's helping that look and feel of those brands and is one thing led to another and is it's been a wild ride. Wow. So is it more on the photography side or was it all like marketing Like, well, marketing in general, but big brand stuff like, like rebrand, soft rebrand or new startup, all of it. But I would say people probably recognize my photography and my style of photography probably more than anything. There was one in your presentation last night. Yes. The cover, the all those greenheads on the water, and that red combine, which I shot that in Milford, Saskatchewan, in 06. To this day, all my travels, it was the most ducks, the most green heads. In one area that I saw in my entire life was right that year. That fall. Oh, was just staggering. Yeah. Yeah. What? What? For those listening, if you haven't seen it yet, what lee was referring to is we had a gala last night. Actually, I have this. I have to do it again. Gala. Gala. I'm not sure which one. I'm going to gala, but we had this kind of a coming out party last night where Delta Waterfowl announced a campaign where we were going to perpetually fund the production of a million ducks each year, you know, well, perpetually in perpetuity, forever. And and so we have developed some marketing materials. We have a nice brochure, but there was this big presentation, a little short film, you know, four or five minute movie, let's call it, but, but the cover is one of these photos and it is gorgeous. Like, to be honest with you, one of the I can't tell you how I mean, one, it's a beautiful photo, but it's almost like we commissioned you for it. We didn't, of course, but it's one of the things that we talk about is that, you know, if you go back, you know, 100 years, it was the prairies were seas of grass, water everywhere, you know. But now it's a much different landscape. It's heavily fragmented, lots of agriculture, confining ducks and their nests, confining predators, ducks take it on the chin. And so what we're trying to do is maximize production on what habitat is left. And so Lee your picture there's a combine. Yes. In the background. And we, you know, working at, you know, harvesting on a grain field of some sort. And there's this beautiful wetland. And it is I mean, I think you'd have to do a kind of a Where's Waldo to find any hens in that picture. It's just green, It's very green and it's so beautiful. So I think by now maybe people have seen that, but full credit to you and thank you for letting us know for sure. It's perfect for you. Oh, man. Thanks for letting us have our hands on it. Those green heads a few days before that, they weren't there. And then you get you just boy, you wake up one morning and all of a sudden they're there and you're like, Oh, my God. Wow. Just staggering numbers like they come out of that bush. Right. That's crazy. Those green hands do. And I'm serious. They're 90, 95%, 90% drakes I bet. Yeah. I've never seen that. You know what that was? Yeah. So skewed. Did you end up hunting them? No. No. I would go hunt little bodies of water that were away from that. And then I hunt in the morning and then I'd take my camera and I would sit on those ducks. I photographed them for a week or so. That's amazing. And again, just a we couldn't have thought of a better picture you know, what made so unique I Luke was with me my son he's 38 or 37 years old right now and I think he told me I was 18 years old, 17 or 18 when we shot that Luke was with me there. And I looked at him and I said, You're never going to see this again. And he thought I was like, talking about the greenheads. I'm like, No, we'll probably see green hands like that again. But I said, normally by Halloween, that's Halloween was it? End of October it normally at that time, harvest is way done. Well that combines in the back picking up barley on Halloween. That's really that's what I'm saying So you get the green heads and they're lit up with their beautiful green heads and then you got that red combine in the background work. I just think it was just unreal. You know how I never see it again, ever? Yeah, I know. When we were, you know, we had a team of which I was a part of, you know, kind of discussing graphics and layout for how we were going to present, you know, the campaign. And someone said, Yeah, let's reach out to Lee and see if he has a photo. So yeah, I just can't thank you enough, you know? So yeah, it's okay. So you have that early marketing and photography, but this is how you were introduced to me away from SHOT show Boss shot Shells is that Lee is probably the best waterfowl hunting photographer. That's for others. But yeah, I mean I'm not asking you to toot your own horn, but, but I do think that's a big compliment simply because I think you and I as hunters, we have an eye for what's authentic. Well, we're authentic. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So you go into it, you look at, you know, certain artist's rendition of a hunting scene. I think some of the federal Duck Stamp entries over the last number of years when there were hunting components integrated into the Duck Stamp contest, you could tell who was a hunter and who was not. Yes, you know. Yeah. And so to have and to be successful, capturing those great photos. Yeah. And then having them come across as authentic, I mean, obviously, then you're a duck hunter and, and it comes across. So I find that a huge compliment, you know. Thank you. Soak it in. Yeah. Yeah. They that. Yeah. No, that's great. Okay, so then let's move on. I suppose at some point along comes this concept of let's start an ammunition company. Well, Brandon and Brandon Cerecke is a generational metal plater from Michigan. Total blue collar dude, blue jeans, t shirt, just a working animal. Right. Very, very smart whip, smart dude. And his little boy, Landon, is like ate up with duck hunting. And he's like, well, let's let's go. Let's do it. Well, Brandon, being a plater and very, very savvy when it comes to making things, makes the shell as he didn't like. He didn't like how ineffective some of the other shells were at killing. So he makes this shell and he starts to go on a trip in Saskatchewan and then in the Dakotas and then in Arkansas and back here pretty soon this one, these guides at this one outfitting business the next year like they do you to you bring it into shells because he'd leave the shells when he left. He'd leave them. He was making them. Oh yeah. And hunting with. Oh yeah. Not selling it. No. Just making his own. No, just making it. Just make and making the shells. And these guys are like, dude, are you going to, you're going to bring some more of the shells with or. Well anyway they started to shoot him and one of the dudes said you should, you should really make these. They're shooting at two or three quarter inch copper plated. No, wasn't copper plated at that time. You said two and three quarter inch number five and they were just smashing white geese. Wow. Mashing them right. Like whoa, this is what is this. So he thought about it and he goes, Yeah, you think I should do that? And they're like, Yeah, you should definitely make these. So he started to ask a few people if, if they, if they knew of anybody that could help get that product to market it will try to cut this part short because it's kind of boring but it's probably boring for you. One dude, one dude in particular said, theres this car in Minnesota, if you can get him to do it. He's he's your guy. He's the dude to do it. So he called me. You're the dude. I'm the dude. He called me and busy with work and, you know, in the height of, you know, big outdoor travel work. And then I kind of I turned him I turned it down. I was like, No, I don't think so. I don't have the time. And anyway, he calls me a month later, he goes over it again and I'm like, I don't know, dude. And he goes, He goes, Tell me why you don't want to do it. And I said, Was not that I don't want to do it I said that if I started, it's going to eat me up, it's going to eat me up. And he goes, Well, what are you doing Tuesday? And I said, me and Bonnie are hanging out at the farm. He goes, Where is the nearest airport? And I said, MSP. And he's like, Not that kind of airport. And I said, Oh, he goes, I need a runway. That's whatever long. And I said, Fairbourne, It's about 20 minutes south of my farm.
And he goes, Pick me up at 8:00 Tuesday morning. No, no kidding. Seriously? Yeah.
8:00 I see the plane fly and he hops in my truck and it's like it was like on like Donkey Kong right there. You know, I'm like, Well, yeah, this is going to work. You guys just clicked. Oh, yeah. I mean, and sat in the barn and kind of went through, like, what This could look like the guy's face, and he's like, Do it. So he makes, he manufactures, he takes care of manufacturing. Zach runs a lot of it and I, I, I'm the brand. I'm brand, I guess I guess it's Oh it's a fantastic. Yeah I'm, I'm I'm super proud of Oh yeah it's fantastic And I love love the habitat first conservation component and the philanthropic component to what we do and that all my partners are on board with that. I told you, I cut my teeth in Prairie Canada. Yeah, and I've seen it changed drastically, right to the point that it makes you sad. Yeah. No, it's. It's so. It's unrelenting, that's for sure. So the. I have to give back. I have to. Yeah. No, I think that's awesome. Of course it is. And I'm really excited to talk about some of the work that we're doing together. Yeah, but let's linger a little bit on on. Yeah. Because I'm. I'm super intrigued. I haven't heard that story before, but what is it about the Boss Shell's that makes them so good? It makes them so good? Well, they were good in the beginning. Well, first of all, it's a density of metal, right? It’s just weight. Right? It's like I have this example where I have a ping pong ball and a golf ball. They're basically the same size. Right? Know, if I tell people, go stand over there and I'll throw one off your forehead. Which one do you want me to throw first? I think ping pong ball, right? Why? Because it doesn't hurt. That's. That's pretty much it. That's pretty much all it is. So the density of metal dropping down a couple of shot sizes versus maybe what the industry standard is and gaining maybe another 100 pellets, you know, going dropping from a steel, a steel three inch number three to a to a Boss. Number five, you're going to get 100 pellets. So you're not only going to gain pattern density with number of pellets, but you have dense, denser metal, which penetrates better. And then once we copper plated it, it was it turned into a just a different animal. Wow. So so that's what's at that So the copper plated. Yup. But what's what's at the core of that. What did it do now. So it is bismuth it's a it's a bismuth alloy. Yep. Yep. And then we've got the tumbled. Beautiful. And Brandon's a freak when it comes to tumbling and polishing and then copper plated it And that came that came from when I shot lead back in the day my favorite show was the Winchester Double X copper plated number six. Okay, well, our two and three quarter copper plated five is just like shooting that shell. That's what makes it so good. And but they had copper plating. Brandon's like, he he calls me one. Oh, he texted me. It was a text message. He goes, Hey, dude, are you up? It's like 1030 at night. We sat on the phone. Till probably 130 in the morning going over this plating. And he goes, What did it do? And I'm like, Well, I can't I mean, I don't know. I can't quantify what it did, but I can tell you what it did. Birds. I mean, it's a hammer. He goes, and he's a metal plater, he goes, Right, I'll make sure I'm going to go do it. Gets off the phone, stays up all night, plates a bunch of it, loads it and does comparison tests versus the first stuff that we were on it. Same, we use test gun, we use a super black eagle three and a no, not a three, an old one and O.G. Okay. And like full choke. That's we just test that, we test it and he calls me up in the morning. It was, Dude, you're not going to believe this. At least way fired up. He goes, man, they like the pattern density. He goes, And even the patterns they’re beautiful. And then that but the penetration in gel block, that's where the real that's where the real money is. So I took we took here about a couple months ago. Magnum lead Magnum lead number four, two and three quarter inch, copper plated four inch and shot it into gel block, It's identical. Really? Yeah. Our tagline. And you've seen the ads. Legendary lead like performance direct from our door to yours. We're direct to consumer. So that's that's really that’s Boss in a nutshell, right? Yeah. I mean that's pretty genius So that so there's I mean obviously just bismuth shot Yeah shells are sold Yeah but the copper plating does that what does that do. It is it's kind of make a smoother. Yes, yes, yes, yes. There you go. Yeah. And Brandon's there's a word for that. I'd you might know it. I don't remember the word, but there's a word for that in that drag that I can't remember what it. Yeah. I don't know. Smart guy stuff. We get close enough right. I think he describe it so that's really cool And I think some of the neat things too you know we had some at the office and I love the bag. The bag. Yeah. Everybody must love the bag, loves the bags. And then I remember along, you know, was sent along some some boxes. Yeah. Collapsed in case. Yeah. You wanted to put it in a traditional box but not that bag concept is pretty cool. It's really cool. It's, it's, well it's it function. It functions. So, you know, lots of times you do things for brand reasons, and then you hope. You hope it functions well. This one we made just straight function. Yeah, right. And then it just turns into turns into a brand play, right? A cool thing. And I everybody's like, well, that's Boss's bag right there, you know? So is that easier for shipping or do you just feel like Hunter wants that bag? Well, you know what happens to a box? Yeah, Especially when you're water. When you're in water. Oh, yeah. When you're in Duncan or you're in boats or you're in, you know, they just disintegrate. Well, now they don't put them in your bag. Take your shells out because we the case comes, they come bulk packed in a poly bag and then to flat box. We used to do two flat boxes in the bag. We no longer do that. Now you request them in the comment section when you order them, right. Yeah. You're not going to use them twice. Yeah. Just yeah, I just don't. It's waste, Just more waste, you know. But the bag really was it really turned into a cool thing. No bag made out of for those. It's like probably I think the first generation ones were 20, 20 ounce waxed canvas and I think now they're a little lighter, but they're stronger. That sounds odd. They're stronger and they cinch tight and close a lot better. But. Well, that waxed material. Yeah, it really helps with that. Yeah. We're hunting ducks right. Yeah, yeah. Even in the field hunter, do you water hunt or field hunt mostly. I'm a water guy. Me too. I think it's crazy. Dogs, decoys and dogs. I'm a I, I, I mean, did I do the dry field stuff and have I. Yeah, for sure. Of course. I mean, of course everybody's done it, right? Yeah. No, I know. I'm a water man. I know that's, that's, that's my 100% preference. I don't know. It's like the splash of a duck versus the thud. I don't know. There's just. Yes, it's part of where I grew up. I grew up, you know, in the Midwest. Yeah. We hunted water. Yeah. Dogs swimming. You know, there's that romance of falling over or stepping in a beaver run, water, decoys, all the all of it. All the above. Yeah. Smell the smell of it. All smells different out there. Yeah. I'm just going to jump on a soapbox field. Hunting makes you soft. I mean, seriously, you could hunt, you know, you could put all the warmers inside your blind. You don't get cold. I mean, I tell you what, there's been some days where it's raining or it's just miserable. Yeah, it's really nice to be in that ground blind but I still miss the water. Me too. You know, that's cool. Me, to, ducks have webbed feet, dude. Yeah. Why don't I meet him on. Meet him. I meet him where they want to be. Right? That's what I say. Right? So this is the part that, you know, I wanted to learn about You learn about, you know, the company and the shot, and that's cool. I also saw there's turkey loads too right. Yeah. Yeah, we make tests, so that tss is that copper plated too. Yeah, we play. We own. We own the plating on high density metal right there. We own the patent Nice. That okay, there, there. Unbelievable. Really on an unbelievable. That's serious. I mean that's like a you know, people throw that word around loosely but you see like a guy came up to us at the National Turkey Federation show and he had a video shoot and our number nine out of a 20 gauge and he had a rangefinder. He had a gobbler at 78 yards that was hung up, stoned it. really like tipped it over. Wow. Wow. 78 yards to me, this is a soapbox thing for me right? Am I? Yeah, we got it, man. I mean, if you want to do it, you can do it. I mean, is it my bag? No. Turkey hunting to me, is I? I want him, like, five steps from me gobbling. I want to. I want to feel him. That's. I think. You know what, dude? That water hunting thing. I think that's what it is for me. I'm ducks, too. I want a feeling. Yeah. And I. And I don't have that when I'm in a field. You're right. You're right. When I'm by myself and I'm in body of water and ducks are doing it and I just feel different. Yeah, I guess that's it. No, I agree with you. There is that intimacy, that close up. Yeah. You're miserable at times, for sure. I don't know. There's that. Theodore Roosevelt talked a lot about, you know, the what? I'd say the pleasure in being uncomfortable. And. And it feels good. It does kind of twist it, but I think that's from one hunter to the other. It's true that we can get that. Oh, it's true. Yeah. No, I do. I do appreciate. So if that I'm going to back up a second because you know that if that if that shot. Yes. Is more dense, it can be the same weight. Yeah but, but be smaller. Right. So then therefore that's why you can fit the extra pellets which same pattern density and pattern density matters you take how many times back in the day with like a three inch, three inch baby steel or a three inch two steel, and you cripple a blue on the water? What happens when you you're following shots and you're trying to kill? It isn't work so good. Can't kill him, right? So now your balance that you're shooting more, well, you don't have pattern density to do it right on top of it. They're probably not as close as they probably should be because they're crippled and they're on the water, which can't kill them. So that kind of goes into this narrative, a Boss narrative that I talk about a lot when people go, Yeah, but your shelves are they're too expensive. Well, I bet if you I bet if you ran it out over the course of a year, the ducks that you picked up for what you shot. Yeah, I'll bet it's cheaper. Yeah. Because you just don't have the follow up shots. Right. You know, that's actually a really good point. You know, this is kind of in my earlier days of hunting, I'd have my good shells and then have my crappy shells, and the other crappy ones were for the economy, crappy brand. Or I get it. It was my follow up. Yeah. Cheaper. You know, So and I had to try to, you know, water swat before sending the dog out burned through those instead of that, you know, the higher price point So that's good. That's good. Right? This is the exciting part. So so my role at Delta as chief conservation officer, I worked there 21 years. You know, our duck production programs and our hunting programs are kind of my bread and butter. That's what blows my hair back when I get excited about it. And you guys have made an investment in conservation and in hunting with Delta through two of our big programs. The first one, our university hunting program. You guys supplied all of the hunting ammo for each one of those universities that we delivered. You must enjoy that one time. Love it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that narrative too. It's so I went cheese. I'm 48. I'm a I'm already one of those guys I'm talking about when I was younger, but when I went to college for my wildlife degree, everybody that I knew, everybody was a hunter. I didn't know. I don't I'm not even sure if I knew someone who didn't hunt or at least I didn't talk to them maybe. And then I just thought, yeah, I thought everybody hunted. And when I was getting that wildlife degree, it was the fact that probably 80 to 90% of the students at my university getting a wildlife degree were hunters. So then when they got a job like mine, managing hunters, working with hunters, managing habitat, they had hunting as a value system and they make those decisions. But right. You know, brands probably had this conversation with Elite, but right now only about 30% of today's wildlife degree majors, future biologists are hunters, right? So we target these universities, we target the non hunting wildlife degree majors, we get them hunter education, we take them to the trap range, we take them on a duck hunt, and then we teach them how to clean cook those those birds. And then the professor teaches them, you know, a little more academic things like Pippin Robertson Act, the Conservation Vet Benefits of a Duck stamp. So when they go get that job, we want them to hunt. We absolutely do. But if they don't, at least they think hunters are good people. Correct. And then that, you know, the the need of a hunter will be part of their decision making process if they're a future administrator. Correct? Academic. But I tell you what, that we delivered at 39 universities last fall, scattered across the U.S. and Canada. And I'm tell you what, that's a major contribution, supplying hunting ammo for those for those hunts. Yeah, it's fun to hear from them, too. When they stop by. You see some of them at a show or whatever they do. Thanks, Bird. Well, I tell you what, it's this. This is true. I can't measure it, but I've had a lot of different situations where I talked to someone who went hunting for the first time and they say I had, you know, the gun that I shot. That hunt was a whatever. And they don't know anything about guns. So they go out there when they buy their own gun, they're looking for that gun. And the exact same thing for probably the camouflage, same thing for the waders. But it certainly is the same thing for the shotguns, you know, And so they know we tell them, hey, this was generously donated by my Boss ammunition. And so they they do come up to you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, that's great. And it's a you know, I tell you what, for a nonprofit where we eat what we kill, those are meaningful contributions that went right to the ground. And that's fantastic. So, yeah, I mean, we're going to have 72 universities this for a while. And so it's it's just growing. Your programs are growing. They are. They are. You know, I think, you know, again, we're the Duck Hunters organization. I was just going to bring it up. I was just going to bring that up. How being a marketing guy and a brand guy, I really like the the Duck Hunters organization. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we try it. It's one of those things where I'm really proud of it in that, you know, back in 1911, we were funded for a started funded to buy duck Hunters games for them, Avid traveling, duck hunting, probably you know, man of your own heart. You ever been to the Bell Museum? I have. Now in Minnesota, No. Remember the artist J. Grizz fans, Francis Lee Jacobs. He painted the backdrops and all the diorama is. It's spectacular. Really? Oh, spectacular. I need to go on my way back to visit family. I'll have to stop in there. You should see it. Yeah, but. But after all these years, 110 years later. Right? We have not lost that. And when I started with Dell 1001, I think I was the seventh or eighth employee at the time. And now, you know, we just broke 80. And, you know, it's it's growing. And I do think that duck hunters, goose hunters deserve an organization that's solely focused on their future and the future of the resource because the two go hand in hand. Yes, right. Of course. And so an advocate, a watchdog, maybe, or just someone you know, that's what we care about. And, you know, we care a lot about the contributions that we get. We make sure that they're efficient. And I'm so proud, you know, from our CEO down to anyone in the office and, you know, the people that even work for us that don't hunt, there's a few not many out of those 80, but the ones that don't. And our mission and attitude must be contagious because they take it on. Sure. And it's really fun. Hey, the other one is our Henhouse program. I love it. And this one floored me when Brett Brett titles our senior director of marketing, he's the he's the guy at Delta that deals with, you know, industry partners and and working on, you know, program contributions or advertising good relationships. But he called me and said, Hey, well, what would you say if I told you that Boss was going to fund 100 hand houses each year for the next three years? And I was like, Yeah, you're just you're totally kidding, because that's no small potatoes. And so 300 man houses that you guys are funding and what's your what's your attraction to hen houses hands and beautiful shoes. Susan Yeah, yeah, yeah. SUSAN Yeah. No, without her, I tell the industry people I've worked with forever, everybody had Boss if it wasn't for Susan, none of us have a job. No. Yeah, you're right. She's it. Yeah. So that's it. One word. Susan Yeah, I have to say, you know, guys like yourself, Lee and others in the industry, I get it. And I understand and I embrace it. Everyone is trying to sell something, right? You know, it's a living. But at the end of the day, I do feel like whether you're an average duck hunter, whether you're a biologist like me, or an industry professional like you, we all have a responsibility to look out for the resource and advocate for hunting. And it just it just warms my heart to see guys like yourself, You know, you don't have to do that. No, you don't have to. It's a choice. Nobody. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So those hen houses. Hey, if you want to come out in January, but it's you want to help install a few of them for some fun, let's do it. But yeah, those those contractors, when we have those hen houses built and we ship them to location with contractors, go out in January, you know, drill a hole in the ice, pound that baby in. And I mean it's a miserable time of the year at times, as you know, coming living in the north sounds like your whole life, but it works so well. We could put them out in the middle of the summer when it's winter, comfy cozy. But you know, what's going to happen is all those materials and that henhouse are going to weather unnecessarily because there isn't going to be a hand to use it until April. So we try to put it out as close to when the hands are going to come back as possible. So that January, February works real nice. Then we're going to have an mailers using them as early as late April. And so yeah, we do all the maintenance, all the insulation and it's a beautiful thing. And so what you guys funded each one of those super sites has become a super site is 110 houses. So that'll pay for the construction, the shipping to the site, you know, out in the prairies, the installation costs and maintenance for ten years. And so those and each one of those hen houses on average will produce 2.25 mallards per year. So multiply that times 300 for ten years. Do the math. Oh, it's beautiful, right? It's a beautiful thing. It can't not. Yeah. Oh, I'd love to. To see you guys come out and and take a tour through it and photograph. Photograph. I could photograph. I bet you put a bet you put a beautiful photo on there. Did you like some of those photos at the at the gala last night. Oh, it was a video there of Ben Peterson. You know, Ben Peterson. Now he's our photographer, videographer. He's a really, really talented guy. He he is really good at getting him putting emotion into videos, like when you can just get sucked in. That video was awesome. Yes. Nate. Yeah. And so there was the one there's the one clip of a hen coming out of it. Oh, yeah. In slow motion. Yep. You see the dude a couple issues ago that captured the little ones coming out of the house. All my God, was that photograph good? I reached out to him. Yep, that's him on Instagram. Yeah, he's talking. I said, hey, my name's, you know, Leach, blah, blah, blah. And I said, I just want to tell you that it's awesome. It was beautiful. Oh, yeah. Yep. And then he actually had and that's the multitalented Van Peterson. He also had I think he probably took some stills out of the video clip, but he had that slow motion video of those little ducklings jumping out onto something. It's so beautiful. And the beautiful thing about those, you know, mallards are the most adaptable duck. And in the literally in the world, they will nest in the craziest, you know, weird locations rooftops abandoned. I've seen them in abandoned tractor seats, you know, and, you know, parked into a woodlot. We have one this year. She didn't unfortunately, ducks don't live forever, but I think it was three consecutive years. We had a hand come right into our office and nest under that in our office. But like right below one of our offices and some shrubs, she came there three years in a row, you know, and that's pretty cool. But they're so adaptable. But what the beautiful thing about those hen houses is, you know, as you know, the, you know, everything like, well, raccoons, skunks, everything. Wants to kill a duck. Yeah. Ducks are food, right? They are food. And so when you put those, you know, you pound that base pipe into the wetland surrounded by water, and then you put that tunnel in there, she's protected from avian predators from above. They're not going to get in there. And, you know, most predators aren't looking to swim across the wetland and then they have to shimmy up a pole. Now, I'll tell you, on occasion, a raccoon will figure it out and they'll get in there, or maybe there'll be a huge rain event and that tunnel gets is, you know, right up against the water. And then you get muskrat swimming in there. But but in general, we get you know, we usually get about 80. Let's see, we usually get about you know, we'll see upwards of 80% use rates. So like 80 out of 100 will have a nest in it. And then they hatch at just an extremely high rate. But one of the things that I think is often overlooked is that adaptable hen she will, they normally nest in the grass and hide for 35 days trying to hatch a nest, you know, but she'll nest upwards of a mile away from where she's going to raise her brood on the water. And so that henhouse so and I love your choice of henhouse because when she hatches that that nest, there's little ducklings drop immediately into the water. And so they avoid that day long journey, you know, from nest to the water. So it's also, you know, a way to reduce predation. Right. Have you ever put on put one out yourself. Yep. Have you put five of them out this spring. Luke and I did. Brad came over and. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. You said you have a farm. Yep. Yeah, your farm bought our south and a little bit west of the Twin City area. Yeah, that's a good location. You know, it's Ducky. Ducky. Not far from the airport. No. If you need to go somewhere, right? Yeah, that. That's a totally unrelated subject, but yeah, where we live in Bismarck, travel can be pretty complicated, but. Yeah. Oh, yeah, This is. Hey, I didn't mention this and in this whole thing, but, you know, we're sitting at the Little Rock, Arkansas, Delta's inaugural Duck Hunters Expo. And so you guys have so Brad Heidel, senior director of marketing, just came walking by. We got to say a shout out. He's leaving. See, Brad, you're good. I didn't get to see you last say before I left. Thanks. That was awesome. It was a great night. It was fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, we will. Yeah, we will. So, Brad brought this thing, whole thing together and brought us together. It was impressive. I didn't get here during the setup, but on Instagram was the Boss bus driving in? That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Yeah. Is it the inside? It's just a normal camper. I, I guess. I guess I don't know that much about this. This is its last trip. We're dropping it off today, and we got a new one. Got a new one? Yeah. So wrap that baby to be pretty. Yeah, I don't know. It'll look cool. Yeah, well, I tell you what. Again, I can't thank you enough. If people want to learn more about Jo's and the work you do, do you have a website for yourself? No, no, no. Instagram page, Instagram, YouTube shows. K.J. Oh, outdoors would be like my. I don't do anything on it, but I have one. But Boss, I chose K so head on to Boss shot shells dot com and if they message if they direct message on Instagram, I'm the one that they're going to be talking to. Okay so you're going to actually some people are like really you're one of the one. Yeah. Yeah. You just call us up and we'll help you get it figured out. What shell you need, what you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I tell you what, you know, I'm. I'm biased, but, you know, if if you're in the market for some high performance shot shells and you love conservation. Yeah. Reach out to Boss and you guys are selling shells here. They probably gone. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They don't last very long in today's world and, and, and probably not their product so they can't take enough of you did a great, great job you know, talking about my Boss about your conservation ethic and hey man I appreciate it anytime. Okay Appreciate. You bet. All right. Take care. Later, dude.